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Welcome to NerdWallet’s Smart Money podcast, where we answer your real-world money questions. In this episode: Learn Nerdy tips to plan a Disney vacation without going broke, and how to choose a retirement plan when self-employed.
This Week in Your Money: Unlock the magic of making your next Disney vacation more affordable with insider tips from travel Nerd Sally French. She joins hosts Sean Pyles and Liz Weston to unveil the secrets behind experiencing Disneyland and Disney World on a budget, from strategic hotel choices to the types of tickets you might want to avoid. Plus: The Nerds discuss the value of early entry benefits, share their hot takes on whether Genie+ tickets are worth the splurge and explore methods for saving money on food and souvenirs.
Today’s Money Question: Investing Nerd June Sham joins Sean and Liz to answer a listener’s question about how to manage retirement plans and quarterly taxes as a self-employed professional. The Nerds go deep into 401(k) contribution limits, mega backdoor Roth 401(k) and IRA plans and SEP, or simplified employee pension, plans. You’ll discover money-saving strategies, understand when it’s important to budget for quarterly taxes and learn when you might need a tax professional to keep your finances in check.
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Sean Pyles: Liz, I know you're a big Disney fan and a Disneyland regular. How much do you think you've spent at Disneyland over the years?
Liz Weston: Oh, so much that Scrooge McDuck hasn't finished counting it yet.
Sean Pyles: That's a lot of gold coins. Well, this episode, we're going to help folks find a more affordable way to get the most out of a Disney vacation.
Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius Nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.
Liz Weston: And I'm Liz Weston. Listener, you know the deal. There's probably something in your financial life that you need help with. Well, let us be your Nerdy helping hand. No matter what the money question, send it our way.
Sean Pyles: You can leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd Hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email us at [email protected].
Liz Weston: In this episode, Sean and I answer a listener's question about choosing between different retirement accounts. But first, it's off to Disney. We're talking with travel writer Sally French about how you can save money on a Disney vacation.
Welcome back to Smart Money, Sally.
Sally French: Thanks for having me. It's great to be back talking about one of my favorite topics, Disneyland.
Sean Pyles: Yeah. So Sally, it's summertime. If families want to squeeze in a vacation to Disney World in Florida or Disneyland in California before school starts, how much should listeners budget?
Sally French: Sean, I love the question, but it is so broad. There are so many ways to travel to Disney on every budget. That said, NerdWallet did some research to understand how much a trip costs for a family of four. What NerdWallet found is that a three-night visit to Disney World can range from about $3,000 on the lower end up to $6,000 for families who prefer more of a deluxe experience, and at Disneyland, it's actually slightly more expensive. A family of four can expect to spend $3,600 on the low end and $6,500 on the higher end.
Sean Pyles: That is a lot of money. You can have a fantastic trip through Europe for that amount of cash. So what do you think are some good ways to save?
Sally French: What NerdWallet found is that more than tickets, more than souvenirs or food, hotels ate up the biggest chunk of the budget. And a big reason why Disneyland trips were more expensive overall than Disney World trips is because Disneyland hotels are more expensive overall.
When NerdWallet compiled this research, we looked at Disney-owned hotels, that's as opposed to something like a Hilton or a Hyatt nearby, and in fact, staying at that Hilton or that Hyatt nearby or even something off-property like a vacation rental can be one of the best ways to save. Disney-owned hotels are just so expensive. At least at Disney World, there are roughly two dozen Disney-owned hotels, but at Disneyland there are only three Disney-owned hotels, which just really limits the options. So if you do want to fully stay at Disney for your entire trip, expect to pay a lot more.
Liz Weston: And it's gotten more expensive over the years. I remember back in the day, you could actually get a room at the Grand Californian at Disneyland for under $200. Those days are so long gone. Yes, I just …
Sally French: Wow! Liz, please tell me you snagged that under-$200 deal. I've never stayed there because it is not in my budget.
Liz Weston: We snagged that a couple of times in January when our daughter was very small. Now, I just checked, and a standard room is over $800 a night at that one hotel. Yeah, so it's crazy.
Sally French: But I think it is worth mentioning what the benefits are. So for people who don't know what the Grand Californian is, that hotel has its own entrance to California Adventure Theme Park, and there are other benefits, like early entry. Early entry can be one of the most valuable perks because you get in line before everyone else does, and you know at Disney, time is money. So even though it's expensive, just keep in mind there are benefits that, for some families, it can be worth it.
Sean Pyles: And getting into the park early can maybe make it so you don't have to buy something like Genie+, which is a tool that allows people to skip lines in a very convoluted way. And Liz, I know you have strong feelings about this program. Can you please give us your thoughts?
Liz Weston: I'm going to try my hardest not to derail the conversation multiple times, but I do have to have a rant about Genie+. Could Disney have come up with a more confusing and complicated system? I would give anything to go back to our beloved FastPass, which was actually free. Now, you have to pay $25-plus per person to skip some lines, not all the lines, some lines. plus you're going to pay another $25 to $30 bucks, again per person, to skip the lines for each of the most popular rides. It's a huge additional expense for a family, but the alternative is standing for hours in line because the parks are almost constantly busy.
So to circle back to that early entry can make a big difference, the other thing that can really help is to be there at what they call rope drop, which is when the parks first open, generally about 30 minutes before the posted time. So if you can get your whole family up and there to the park, you can actually ride a lot of rides in that first hour or so.
Sally French: Yeah. And you know Liz, that's really the best tip. I was actually just at Disney World and in the first hour, we did eight rides. We just beelined to Fantasy Land and just boom, boom, boom. We just hit all of them. But then the next three hours, we only got on two rides because people start piling in late. And so if you can get all those rides in early, you knock it all out and then have the rest of the day to sort of kick back and relax.
Sean Pyles: Yeah. Well also, if you are looking to have a relaxing vacation, I wouldn't necessarily think that Disney is the place to do that. Between all of the people and the time and the money involved, it seems a little bit too stressful for my tastes.
But Sally, I'm wondering if you have any other tips for how people can save money if they are going to go the Disney route for their vacation.
Sally French: Yeah. So we talked already about considering staying off property. Again, there's pros and cons, but other things are bringing your own stuff from off-property, so that is food and souvenirs. A lot of people don't realize that Disney actually is very open about allowing you to bring in your own outside food. There are just a few limitations, like you can't bring in glass or hard-sided coolers, things like that.
Same for souvenirs. Disney charges so much for souvenirs, but typically, there are very similar souvenirs being sold at Target. Your kid wants to go to the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique and get their princess dress. Can you go to a store like Target or even order on Amazon or wherever you buy kids toys and buy a princess dress for your kid there? They probably won't even realize that you didn't buy it at the Disney parks. So if you can surprise your kid that night and say, "Here's your new princess dress," they'll probably think it came from Disney anyway.
Liz Weston: And I'm not sure about Disney World, but not far from Disneyland is what we like to call "The Magical Target" because it has tons of Disney merchandise for half or less of what you'd pay at the parks. It's on Harbor Boulevard in Garden Grove, which is just down the road from Disneyland.
Sean Pyles: Tickets are also a really expensive part of Disney, but there are a few ways to get discounted tickets, right?
Sally French: Yeah, so Liz already mentioned Target, but I also recommend using Target to simply buy gift cards, which you can turn around and use to buy souvenirs in the park or use them to buy theme park tickets. The reason why I recommend buying gift cards at Target is for folks who have a Target REDCard, which is Target's branded credit card, that REDCard offers 5% off and it's automatic at the register on Target purchases.
If you're not going to Target and you don't have a Target REDCard, you might also look at places like Costco. They often have deals. AAA tends to have deals. Of course, these vary based on the time of the year. There's even sometimes local resident deals. So if you live in California, there might be an offer. So shop around, even if you have some sort of corporate employee discount program, you might find discount Disney tickets there as well.
Liz Weston: And we should mention that Target also sells Disney entrance tickets and there's usually a $5 to $10 discount compared to buying them directly from Disney. And then again, you get that 5% REDCard discount.
Sally French: Yeah, that's a great tip.
Another thing to remember is Disney recently implemented that on-demand pricing. So if you are used to taking Ubers and Lyfts, you might know about surge pricing. That is something that has relatively been new to the Disney parks. So for better or for worse, it used to be that if you wanted to go to Disneyland on Christmas, a Saturday in the summer, it was just absolutely packed. And then if you went to Disney on a Tuesday in February when it's raining, it would be a complete ghost town. And what's happened now is that they charge significantly less to go on those off-peak times, that's the rainy Tuesday in February, and significantly more to go on the peak times like the summer Saturday.
And so what that's actually done is it has evened out the crowds because people are price-sensitive and they say, "You know what? I don't mind going on that Tuesday in February if I can save money." So if you are like that, you might be able to save money by going on those off-peak seasons.
Another sort of ticket hack, I like to say, is to avoid the Park Hopper. So Disney sells tickets that are single-day single-park, or they sell Park Hopper tickets, which allow you to go to multiple parks in one day. So at Disney World, there are four parks, and at Disneyland, there are two parks. If you are only going to be at the overall Disney resort for one day and you want to see what each park has to offer, then you will have to buy a Park Hopper, but these tickets are more expensive than single-day single-park. So if you are going to be on property for multiple days, I recommend just doing that single-day single-park.
Sean Pyles: So Sally, I have one last question for you. Given how much things cost at Disney, is there anything free at these parks?
Sally French: Sean, you asked the right person because I love free things to do at Disney.
So at Disneyland Resort in California, they have a shopping district called Downtown Disney. You can also wander into some of the hotels, which are nice to look around. You might even spot a Disney character there. But at Disney World, Sean, I actually took an entire week-long trip to Disney World and did not set foot into the parks once. That's because I was explicitly trying to figure out what I could do outside the theme parks and the answer is a lot.
So they have something similar to Downtown Disney called Disney Springs. Again, it's a shopping and dining district. They also have another smaller district called Disney's Boardwalk and there are so many free things to do here. So the Boardwalk has live entertainment at night. You'll see jugglers, you'll see singers.
And then all of the resorts have so many unique attractions. We mentioned earlier there are about two dozen Disney resorts. They're all really highly themed. You can watch the fireworks, you can ride the monorail around. They have so many amazing transportation systems that are free, like lovely boat rides. They have a Skyliner, which is this aerial gondola. It's free.
And so believe it or not, there is so much stuff that you can do outside the parks that I think you could have a great time at Disney without once stepping foot inside a theme park.
Sean Pyles: All right, well Sally, thank you so much for sharing your tips with us.
Sally French: Thank you.
Liz Weston: Before we move on, we have an exciting announcement. We are running another book giveaway sweepstakes ahead of our next Nerdy Book Club episode.
Sean Pyles: Next month, we're speaking with Cameron Huddleston, author of “Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk,” which guides us through challenging but essential financial conversations with our parents. To enter for a chance to win our book giveaway, send an email to [email protected] with the subject "Book Sweepstakes" during the sweepstakes period. Entries must be received by 11:59 p.m. Pacific Time on August 9th. Include the following information: your first and last name, email address, ZIP code and phone number. For more information, please visit our official sweepstakes rules page.
That wraps up our This Week in Your Money segment. Today's Money Question is up next. Stay with us.
This episode's Money Question comes from Austin, who texted us their question. Here it is as read by our audio editor, Kaely Monahan.
Kaely Monahan: Hello, my name is Austin and I have a question for a future NerdWallet Smart Money podcast episode. I earned some of my income through 1099 work as an on-call pediatrician at my local hospital. I've created a single-member LLC to receive this pay and would like to utilize it in the best way possible. It is extra and not needed for our monthly bills or expenses, and thus is used solely for saving and investing. I already maxed out the yearly employee 401(k) contributions and backdoor Roth through my W-2 salary, so I don't think I can do any more on that front. I know I could contribute up to 25% of the total 1099 money to a solo 401(k).
My primary question is logistically, how do I do this? How do I choose between a Roth versus traditional 401(k)? How should I set aside some money for quarterly taxes and how do you pay quarterly taxes? How can I determine how much to put into the solo 401(k) each month versus how much I can save or invest in my taxable brokerage? And finally, do I need to wait until year-end and know the total yearly income before investing in anything? Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all your help.
Liz Weston: To help us answer Austin's question, on this episode of the podcast we're joined by investing writer June Sham. Welcome to Smart Money, June.
June Sham: Thank you so much for having me.
Sean Pyles: It's great to have you on, June. There's a lot going on in Austin's question, but before we get into all of it, a quick reminder courtesy of the NerdWallet legal team. We are not investment advisors or financial advisors and will not tell you what to do with your money. Our job as Nerds is to give you the information and context so that you can make informed decisions with your money.
OK, now let's get into the meat of Austin's question. They're asking about three different types of retirement plans: an employer-sponsored 401(k), a backdoor Roth and a solo 401(k). And Austin is essentially wondering how to fund and prioritize these accounts.
So June, to start, can you give us a very quick overview of these different types of retirement accounts?
June Sham: Yeah, of course. So with the employer-sponsored 401(k) plan, you as the employee make pre-tax contributions into the account. What's really great is that typically, most employers will offer a matching contribution based on the amount that you put in, and so it's a great way to earn some extra free money towards your retirement savings.
Some 401(k) plans now also come in a Roth version, which doesn't have an upfront deduction, but you do get to withdraw the money tax-free in retirement. So Austin also said he's doing a backdoor Roth. What that means is that he's contributing money to a traditional IRA and then converting that money to a Roth IRA. Roth IRAs have income limits, so this backdoor version is a method for people with higher incomes to get money into their Roth IRAs, which they necessarily wouldn't be able to do.
Liz Weston: Yes, and like a Roth 401(k), Roth IRAs also don't have an upfront tax break, but the money that you take out in retirement is tax-free.
So June, what about options for people who are self-employed or have self-employment income like Austin has?
June Sham: With self-employment income, you have a number of different options, which I think, Sean, you've covered on the podcast before. Austin might be confusing a couple of the more common types of self-employment retirement plans. A couple of these could be the SEP, or simplified employee pension, which allows Austin to contribute up to 25% of their net earnings from self-employment, and that's up to $66,000 this year.
A solo 401(k) plan, which Austin mentioned, also has a $66,000 limit in 2023, but it breaks down a little differently. The self-employed business owner basically could contribute as an employer and an employee. And as an employee, Austin can contribute 100% of their compensation up to what's known as elective deferral limit, which is $22,500 for people under 50 in 2023. As an employer, Austin can make a profit-sharing contribution of up to 25% of compensation. And the cool thing is that both the SEP and the solo 401(k) now have Roth versions as well.
Liz Weston: I just want to take a minute because most people, when they think about 401(k) limits, they're thinking about the elective deferral limit. So that's the one that gets all the publicity that if you know anything about 401(k)s, that's probably the one you've seen, but these plans actually have much higher limits that count things like employer and after-tax contributions.
Sean Pyles: June, some financial advisors will recommend a specific order for prioritizing different types of retirement accounts. Can you talk about that and what Austin should consider as they're deciding which of their retirement accounts to put the most money in?
June Sham: When it comes to figuring out where to put your retirement savings, it really comes down to the types of accounts you have and how much you can set aside. Let's say, for example, it's not possible to contribute the maximum to all of their retirement accounts, and in this case, most advisors probably recommend starting with your 401(k) plan, especially if it has an employer match to get that free money.
After you've gotten the match, you can look to an IRA based on the type of tax break you want, and from there, you can go back to your 401(k) plan.
Sean Pyles: Austin also wants to know how to set up a solo 401(k). How would they go about doing that?
June Sham: For that, you need an employer identification number, which they already have since they've set up that limited liability company. From there, you can set up a solo 401(k) with most online brokers and they'll provide stuff like plan adoption agreements and account applications to fill out. Once that's completed, you can go ahead and choose your investments.
Liz Weston: OK. For the second part of Austin's question, they want to know how to prioritize contributions specifically among their plans. What would you tell people about that?
June Sham: So for people like Austin who have both an employer-sponsored 401(k) plan and a solo 401(k) plan, the most important thing they need to remember is that the annual contribution limit is a combined limit. So how to split contributions between the two plans could depend on things like employer match, plan administrative costs and investment options.
Sean Pyles: All right. And that part about combined contribution limits is really important here. In general for the 2023 tax year, the elective deferral limit for 401(k)s is $22,500, the number that we've mentioned earlier in this episode, and that's if you're under 50. If you're 50 and over, you can contribute up to $30,000.
From Austin's question, it seems like they're saying they're contributing the maximum amount to their 401(k) from their W-2 employer and they're also looking to add more to a 401(k) via a solo 401(k). That might mean that they actually over-contribute, which could land Austin in a bit of trouble. Can you discuss what happens if you do over-contribute to an account like a 401(k)?
June Sham: Yeah, so if you have an excess contribution, it must be withdrawn by April 15th of the following year, or else there could be a lot of penalties including having the plan disqualified.
Sean Pyles: Hm. That's bad.
Liz Weston: Yeah, very bad.
June Sham: Yep, that's not really great. Austin could also make contributions to the solo 401(k) solely as an employer, not as an employee, so that Austin can avoid going above that employee contribution limit. Or a last option is that Austin could simply opt for a SEP and not have to worry about that combined limit, since a SEP is considered an entirely different type of plan if it's offered by a different employer.
Sean Pyles: June, you mentioned earlier that SEPs and solo 401(k)s also have a Roth option, and so do a lot of workplace 401(k) plans. A lot of people have a hard time deciding when to contribute to Roth versus options that give them an upfront tax deduction. Personally, I try to balance when my retirement money is taxed. Some is taxed now and some will be taxed down the road. I contribute a lot to my 401(k). Last year, I was really focused on contributing to my Roth IRA, and I recently set up something called a mega backdoor Roth, something that I know Liz is a huge fan of and we'll get into in a little bit.
Liz Weston: I totally will. I totally will. I am all about tax diversification and it's a phrase that planners love to use when they're describing the ability basically to better control your taxes in retirement. If all of your money is in pre-tax options, like if you're maxing out the 401(k) pre-tax or putting it all in a traditional IRA where you get a tax deduction, it all has to be taxed when it comes out and they force you to take it out at a certain age. If you've got money in a Roth, you don't have to pay income taxes on withdrawals and you also don't have to worry about required minimum distributions. That gives you a heck of a lot more control.
June Sham: Yeah, early in my career, I focused solely on making Roth contributions for pretty much that exact reason. I assume that my earning potential would change in the future and I wanted to be able to access that money tax-free in retirement. But now, I see a lot of value in having, Liz, what you said, tax diversification and taking advantage of things now as opposed to later and helping me plan out my retirement strategy.
Liz Weston: Yes. And one other thing to check out is what Sean just mentioned, which is the mega backdoor Roth option. We talked about the backdoor Roth where you contribute to a traditional IRA and then you convert it. The mega backdoor Roth is a similar idea, but it is on steroids. So mega backdoor Roths have to be offered by your employer and many of them don't.
But if they do, it starts out with a 401(k) plan that allows you to make after-tax contributions, and then it offers what's known as an in-service conversion. In other words, the money you put in after tax is converted right away into a Roth option. Normally, you would have to wait until you left your job to roll after-tax money into a Roth. So high earners really like the mega backdoor Roth because they don't have to worry about those Roth IRA income limits, plus you can put a lot more money in. IRAs have a lower contribution limit, the $6,500 that we mentioned earlier for people under 50. With a mega backdoor Roth, you can contribute up to, get this, $43,500. That's in addition to the $22,500 that you can contribute to the regular 401(k) plan.
Now, there's a lot of math that goes into this and we will have links in the show notes to articles that explain exactly how this works and who it might be good for.
Sean Pyles: I think a lot of listeners may be listening to that and thinking, “First of all, that's confusing. I don't know what's going on.” And second of all, “$66,000 is a lot, a lot of money to contribute to a retirement account in a single year.” And so I want to zoom out a little bit and talk about retirement account contributions, maxing out retirement accounts, in relation to other financial goals, because maxing out a retirement plan or three can be really great for your future self, but it's not realistic for many people and it can sometimes conflict with other goals like saving for a down payment on a house, building up an emergency fund, that sort of thing.
And our listener, Austin, is also wondering about when to invest money into a brokerage account versus a retirement account. I'd love to hear how you guys think about competing financial priorities in your own lives, especially as it relates to retirement and other investments.
June Sham: Yeah, you bring up a really good point, Sean. Our immediate financial goals and responsibilities are just as important as our future ones. It would be so great if we could all max out our retirement accounts, and truly, major congratulations to Austin for doing so, but it's also not the end of the world if we can't.
At least in my own life, I try to remember that everyone's financial journey is different. You can't use someone else's financial plans because we're all in different places. And so being strategic with your own money and being realistic with your own goals is the best way to make the decisions for yourself.
When deciding to prioritize between retirement or brokerage accounts though, you really need to consider when you need the money. If it's shorter than five years, then short-term investments like online savings accounts, CDs or money market accounts might be the best move. For anything longer, you could consider, then, a brokerage or retirement account, but just remember that with retirement accounts, you can't withdraw the funds until 59 and a half years old without incurring penalties and taxes.
Sean Pyles: One way I like to think about retirement contributions and the lofty goal of maxing out accounts in relation to other things is that you don't have to do one thing for the rest of your life. Maybe you have a great year financially and you can max out your retirement account and maybe the next year, you have some financial setbacks or you have other expenses come up, like you have a kid, that needs a lot of money of course, and so you draw back from contributing as much to your retirement account because you have a much more pressing financial priority in the form of a baby or a house or whatever it may be.
So I think that just understanding that you may have peaks and valleys of what you can put into different financial priorities will help you be more flexible and accomplish many different things simultaneously.
Liz Weston: Yes, I would just add that I am really glad that I tried to put in as much in as possible to my retirement funds when I was younger because that gave me a heck of a lot more flexibility down the road when I did want to start my own business and have a kid and take some time off. And all those things were possible because I kind of maxed out at the beginning, if that makes sense. It is not something that everybody can do. However, that wonderful power of compounding really gets going for you if you can put money into a retirement account as early as possible.
So I do encourage people, don't ignore this, this is really important, try to do it, but as you guys said, there are lots of different goals that we have to accomplish and sometimes it's tough to get it all done.
June Sham: Yeah. And every little bit helps. If you only just put in a little bit, compound interest can help you take care of it even more.
Liz Weston: Yep, exactly.
Sean Pyles: Yeah. And play the long game. And Liz, now I have a question for you as a business owner. Austin is wondering about quarterly taxes and how to manage them. I'm guessing your suggestion for Austin would be to hire a qualified tax professional.
Liz Weston: And the earlier, the better. When you have your own business, you have so many complicated issues to deal with. It can really help to have another set of eyes on your tax return, someone knowledgeable who can guide you and answer questions because tax people do this 24/7. I mean, Austin is a doctor and they've got a business to run. They've got a lot of things to do without going to study the tax law. So yes, absolutely get a qualified tax professional.
We have what's known as a pay-as-you-go tax system, so we are supposed to be withholding taxes as we earn money. You can't just wait until you file your taxes to figure out what you owe, unfortunately. And Sean, I think you discovered this.
Sean Pyles: Yes.
Liz Weston: To your distress earlier in your career.
Sean Pyles: Years ago, I was on the hook for a pretty big tax bill because I did not save as I went with my contractor money, and I did not enjoy it. So learn from me and put aside the money, pay quarterly. Yes.
Liz Weston: There you go. And a tax pro can help you figure out how much to pay each quarter so that you are what's known as penalty proof. In other words, you won't owe penalties for under-withholding. Once you know how much you owe each quarter, you divide it by the number of checks or payments or whatever that you expect to get in the meantime, and you set that cash aside. Then you pay before the deadline each quarter. It's super easy to do online.
Sean Pyles: I don't think we've ever covered so many disparate but interconnected and complicated topics in a single segment.
June, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights.
June Sham: Thanks so much for having me.
Sean Pyles: And with that, now let's get onto our takeaway tips. Liz, will you please start us off?
Liz Weston: Yes. First, know your options. You may have a variety of retirement accounts available, including Roth IRAs, traditional 401(k)s, and self-employment options.
Sean Pyles: Next, plan for tomorrow, but live for today. Maxing out your retirement accounts is a great goal, but think about how you can balance that with nearer-term financial priorities like going on vacations or buying a house.
Liz Weston: Finally, tap professional help. Tax obligations as a business owner can be confusing. Consider hiring a qualified tax pro to help you sort out what you owe and how to pay it.
Sean Pyles: And that's all we have for this episode.
Do you have a money question of your own? Turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email us at [email protected]. Visit nerdwallet.com/podcast for more info on this episode, and remember to follow, rate, and review us wherever you're getting this podcast.
This episode was produced by Liz Weston and myself with help from Tess Vigeland and Meghan Coyle. Kaely Monahan and Kevin Tidmarsh mixed our audio. And a big thank you to the folks on the NerdWallet copy desk for all their help.
Liz Weston: And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.
Sean Pyles: And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerds.